Latest Topics
 
 
 


Reply
  Author   Comment   Page 1 of 5      1   2   3   4   Next   »
Brent
Reply with quote  #1 
Yet another longtime member ( OB ) of BOS got banned for giving a personnel opinion on something ,in this case best ski boat (not allowed to take shots at MC ) . The Forum has a lot of people but don't take anything from Horton without a shaker of salt ,he does not promote  without being paid !!! I left yrs ago under similar circumstance when I wanted to post a bad experience with one of his advertisers . BTW he reads all the personnel messaging on that site so be careful there as well. It seems ethics can be put aside for the right price [frown]
0
strangebrew
Reply with quote  #2 
It sure is an odd mix of totalitarian douchery, christmas unboxings, and knives too close to children. 

And the rest is a fest of blubbering fools. Shame that opinions are stepped on, not treated like most forums out there. 
0
MasterBoat
Reply with quote  #3 
Do you know what the nature of the complaint against Mastercraft was? I'm just wondering if it's the same as mine that I couldn't give because I was skiing at a Mastercraft site. Let me just say great hull...ilmor, not my favorite engine in a ski boat.
0
Not seeing it
Reply with quote  #4 
How do you know OB got banned?
0
Makes sense
Reply with quote  #5 
Well, OB doesn't own a MasterCraft or ski on a Radar, so I can see why he got banned ... 
0
OB
Reply with quote  #6 
True, but not just because of one comment. Apparently, I've worn Horton out over the years with negative comments in regards to skis, boats, and the sport in general.

It's not a Public Forum, it's a privately owned and operated site. He's free to run it any way he likes.

I didn't even know I was banned until friends starting telling me they couldn't read my posts, but I could still see them. Internet trickery I suppose.

I guess I'll have more time on my layovers to surf porn if I did that kind of thing I guess...
0
Kevin Fennell
Reply with quote  #7 
I was also shadow banned (where you can post but nobody sees it) there for having opinions that aren't 100% behind his sponsors. Everyone needs to be aware that there are lots of people having problems with equipment that sponsors his site, but that he deletes everything negative that gets said. I wonder how many people really have problems with radar skis delaminating, reflex boots breaking ankles, and a variety of new boats not getting up to speed....
0
Kevin Fennell
Reply with quote  #8 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Fennell
I was also shadow banned (where you can post but nobody sees it) there for having opinions that aren't 100% behind his sponsors. Everyone needs to be aware that there are lots of people having problems with equipment that sponsors his site, but that he deletes everything negative that gets said. I wonder how many people really have problems with radar skis delaminating, reflex boots breaking ankles, and a variety of new boats not getting up to speed....



Another thing there is that many of the posters and horton himself are violating  FTC rules on being paid shills without disclosure. 

https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business-center/guidance/ftcs-endorsement-guides-what-people-are-asking

0
Carbon pro now Mc
Reply with quote  #9 
I smile when reading some of his stuff. The Carbon Pro was in his mind the best thing since sliced bread. Now you see some negative comments about them. There was a thread about the gas gauge in the MC. Horton had to jump in and let us all know that his was working perfect. The site does give some comedic value I guess.
0
Brent
Reply with quote  #10 
This is the site to give Horton & BOS members honest feedback .

He e-mailed me this morning & we went back and forth on moderating sites & ethic's to no avail at least for the moment . Me thinks he is very pissed at me [smile]
0
Banned
Reply with quote  #11 
Also shadow banned.. I was posting for weeks and surprised I never had any replies...

Think he even removed the thread, was not even remotely controversial.

Thin skin and weak ethics for sure. After buying 2 skis he raved about (one was the actual ski he reviewed) and finding them to be total garbage, I have up on any of his reviews.

It sure would be nice to have more traffic here.
0
Banned
Reply with quote  #12 
Just thought more about the shadow banning.

No doubt in my mind it is so he can still get your clicks and post counts for the advertisers!

As advertiser's find out about the weak ethics, they will leave. I know of at least 2 in the last year who've left. He sold them a bill of goods and they never were able to gain ROI
0
Hmm
Reply with quote  #13 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Banned
Also shadow banned.. I was posting for weeks and surprised I never had any replies...

Think he even removed the thread, was not even remotely controversial.

Thin skin and weak ethics for sure. After buying 2 skis he raved about (one was the actual ski he reviewed) and finding them to be total garbage, I have up on any of his reviews.

It sure would be nice to have more traffic here.


What skis? And so you really buy skis because of his reviews?
0
ktm300
Reply with quote  #14 
The censorship and shilling are troublesome.  Still, lots of good information to be gleaned from some of the members about a variety of topics.  There is a parallel discussion that goes on regards skis and other products and that occurs off site.  Most know not to believe jack about ski reviews from certain posters.  While it has its flaws, what is the alternative?  No offense to the Ellis folks but skifly forum is on life support.  I rarely post anything on BOS other than to ask a question.  If you have a legitimate negative opinion of any product, leave it to the parallel discussion off site.  

I think OB has a good sense of humor that some can't handle.  A conversation amoungst sycophants is boring and uninformative.   

If anybody can provide proof/confirmation that the PM's are monitored, I would like to know that.  Would piss me off for sure.





0
Horton
Reply with quote  #15 

The only thing from this thread that I will comment on is private messages.

Yes, if I wanted to I could spoof any user account at any time and read any private correspondence. I only spoof accounts when users have technical issues and ask for assistance.  I absolutely do not go in and read the private messages of my users. That is a baseless accusation.

What does happen on an almost daily basis is that users inadvertently reply to private message by emailing the support address. The system sends out notifications when one user messages another. If one of the users replies to that notification instead of returning to the site to reply the message goes to the support address. I have considered turning off email notification of private messages because so many users do not read the instructions and reply to the support address.  So yes again I see a lot of messages. If I have the time I will reply telling the user that their message went to me and not to the intended recipient. If this explanation makes sense or not the bottom line is if a user does not follow the (bold blue) instructions in the notification message the reply go to me. It is a royal pain in my ass and I do not care about of what is said.

If you think I am so crazy that I spend all day reading private messages then I just don’t know what to say.

I work hard to keep the site running. If you do not like how I run BallOfSpray then please stop reading it. 

0
Fused
Reply with quote  #16 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ktm300
The censorship and shilling are troublesome.  Still, lots of good information to be gleaned from some of the members about a variety of topics.  There is a parallel discussion that goes on regards skis and other products and that occurs off site.  Most know not to believe jack about ski reviews from certain posters.  While it has its flaws, what is the alternative?  No offense to the Ellis folks but skifly forum is on life support.  I rarely post anything on BOS other than to ask a question.  If you have a legitimate negative opinion of any product, leave it to the parallel discussion off site.  

I think OB has a good sense of humor that some can't handle.  A conversation amoungst sycophants is boring and uninformative.   

If anybody can provide proof/confirmation that the PM's are monitored, I would like to know that.  Would piss me off for sure.





more ideas is always better. Sport is so small though
0
@ktm300
Reply with quote  #17 
Where is this parallel discussion you speak of?
0
skier
Reply with quote  #18 
Guys, the answer is to spread the word.  This site is fantastic. You can stand behind your name when you want and then there are times when you need to be anonymous.  Skifly screwed up and went the other direction last year, but they have now realized that there is a very real need to be anonymous sometimes. 
We need to all be helpful/vigilant in spreading the word.  BOS is not going away...There is plenty of room for both forums. We should all be careful about bashing a company on either forum. 
0
Kevin Fennell
Reply with quote  #19 
Quote:
Originally Posted by skier
Guys, the answer is to spread the word.  This site is fantastic. You can stand behind your name when you want and then there are times when you need to be anonymous.  Skifly screwed up and went the other direction last year, but they have now realized that there is a very real need to be anonymous sometimes. 
We need to all be helpful/vigilant in spreading the word.  BOS is not going away...There is plenty of room for both forums. We should all be careful about bashing a company on either forum. 


Why are we not allowed to bash companies when they make a product that is woefully inadequate?

Some examples: Radar green monster handle that went hard as a rock the first time it saw the sun. 
MOB binding system that would literally sink your ski to the bottom of the lake if it fell off the platform. 

Also wondering where is the parallel discussion?
0
gator1
Reply with quote  #20 
I got shadow banned for saying that the personal GPS tracker John was pushing would never work.  Of course, it did not ever work.

I was in trouble previously for taking exception to John's advice to straighten my back leg.  All pictorial evidence suggests every good skier's back leg is bent more than front. John was adamant he was right.  Still sticks to that.

I posted my first prototype of a binding to protect people from ripping their Achilles, as I had done.  Got torn to shreds by the moderators.  That seemed counterproductive at best.  Lots of people still rip their Achilles, and trying to downplay that is doing nobody any good.

After I got banned, I came back as Cayman2.  Had quite a bit of fun sucking the moderators into exposing their bias.  Took John a month or so to figure out a gator and a cayman are both dangerous reptiles that look alike.  During that time, about 15 of us frequent posters were in on the joke, and PMed each other quite a bit sharing in the humor.   

Since it took so long for John to figure out Cayman was spoofing his site, I tend to believe he doesn't read the PMs.

As most have stated its his site.  I hear he makes about $6k a month off the advertisers.  I can see the temptation to become a shill.  That's a lot of money for reading emails. 

The sport desperately needs a central site.  That should be provided by AWSA, and could then be unbiased.  And should be the replacement for the magazine.

I think  most of the thoughtful posters are mainly pissed that John is behaving crookedly.  Trying to maintain the impression of impartiality while being actually crooked. Telling a binding user who just ripped his Achilles its the users fault due to mis-adjusting the binding really pisses me off to watch. Tribes evolved to stamp that type of behavior out of the gene pool.  I think eventually John will either have to modify his approach or go the way of waterski magazine.  So obviously biased as to become worthless. 

0
Funny
Reply with quote  #21 
It kinda brings to mind a
Guy offering a Women $1000,000 dollars to sleep with him

Girl thinks about it & says yes

Guy replies by offering her $100 instead.

Girl replies saying she is not a Whore.

Guy replies by saying we have already established your a Whore ,now were just haggling on price .
0
@gator1
Reply with quote  #22 
how can I get in contact with you? I want to talk to you about your binding ideas.
0
gator1
Reply with quote  #23 
How do I get in touch with you?  I'm always willing to help people with bindings.  I lost count of how many gatormod v1, v2, v3 and now v4 I have made for people with damaged ankles.

I am now working with one of the ski/binding companies to bring, finally, a commercially available binding to market that incorporates the gatormod.  So I'm limited in what I can say.
0
ktm300
Reply with quote  #24 
Point of clarification:  I would give BOS an "A" and I think it is 90% good.   I think it is difficult to draw the line between keeping things civil and allowing for dissenting opinions.  Somebody has to make that call and Horton is the one to do it.  I think it is great that BOS censors political discourse; can we not leave politics out of skiing?  I think it is great that BOS does not allow ad hominem attacks; they are not a form of legitimate argument and they are rude.  Shame they don't make Logic 101 mandatory in school.

OB is a friend of mine and is one of my go to sources for information.  Hard to understand how he could get banned.  Net loss to BOS in my opinion.

I think Horton does a good and fair job reviewing skis and I appreciate the time he puts into it.  Some of the setups he has come up with worked great for me and saved me a lot of time.  He does not hide the fact that he has sponsors; he lists all of his advertisers.  

What I don't much care for is censorship regarding inanimate products like skis or anything else that we buy.  Tomato Tomaato.  I want to know both sides.   I want to be able to hear what people dislike about the products.  It could be the case that some of the people brave enough to utter a criticism are more caustic than one would like; so what?  Is it a discussion or not?  Sometimes not.  Knowledge can be found in the dissent and disagreement.  Whether fostered by Horton or not (I really don't know) you aren't going to read many people criticize anything.

Horton explained in this thread that he does not read PMs and I believe him.  

This sport is so small and we need to depend on one another to keep it going.  People need to learn how to have respectful disagreements and know that a disagreement is not the same as an ad hominem attack.

One of my good friends said to me about skis: "Well, you have tried a lot of skis; maybe the problem isn't the ski"  LOL  How true!  I needed to hear it.  Point being, criticism can be good and should be welcomed.  Try telling someone that they should not be driving in tournaments because they weave up and down the lake and we have it on video.  Oh shit...  Because they could not pass Logic 101, they will hear it as "you suck and are a terrible human being"  

0
@gator1
Reply with quote  #25 
Michael Woodgate. please shoot me an email skiwoodgate@icloud.com. I'd like to talk to you, maybe we could help each other out.
0
gator1
Reply with quote  #26 
I emailed you
0
Lpskier
Reply with quote  #27 
I don't see @horton as a villain, but it is nice to see an active discussion here on SkiFly.
0
Analyst
Reply with quote  #28 
Interesting that the most traffic ski fly has seen in years is about bos
0
Realist
Reply with quote  #29 
Maybe because JH's bs is reaching an all time high.
0
Kevin Fennell
Reply with quote  #30 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lpskier
I don't see @horton as a villain, but it is nice to see an active discussion here on SkiFly.


Do you think it is ok to censor any negative comments on basically the only public discussion of water ski equipment? How is a person supposed to make an informed decision if they only read positive comments and aren't aware that the negatives are being deleted. 

Not to mention that there are clearly a number of people there breaking the law with their shilling without mentioning they are being paid. 
0
Horton
Reply with quote  #31 
Kevin,

I'm fully aware it's pointless trying to correct you but for everybody else - people complain about products and services on BallOfSpray all the time. It's a regular occurrence that people reach out for help about a product on my website and the ski company gets back to them personally.

What is not allowed is endless bashing. When guys like you think you can bully a ski or boat company into giving you what you want (if it is fair or not), I don't allow it. All you have to do is read my forum to see if that is true.

As for my status as a Federal Criminal, that is f***ing hilarious!
0
gator1
Reply with quote  #32 
Well, see, BOS is not the only public forum on water skiing.

But it is like watching a talented young skier with great potential start smoking dope and piss his potential down the drain.

Skifly shows what an unmoderated site becomes: more often than not discussions devolve into lord of the flies screaming matches.

BOS could be awesome.  But when John so obviously shills for his advertisers, and bans the people who call him on the shilling, it calls into question everything else on the site.  And the obvious shilling is an insult to the participants on the site.

When John had the CP it was the best thing since sliced bread. Then he gets the MC, and posts about how much better it drives than the CP.  Well, duh, John.  Anybody who has driven the boats already knows how they stack up.  We knew it when he was shilling for the CP, and we know it now that he is shilling for the MC.  So, clearly I know I can't trust John on his opinion of a boat.  He'll say anything to try to promote it. It'll probably be strictly true, but slanted. Same goes for any other product he's advertising.

Certainly telling the guy who ripped his Achilles that it was because he had the reflex release adjusted too tight, without any data, wasn't even strictly true, and also could cause potential harm. 

But, you know, buyer beware.  I don't believe Proctor and Gamble when they tell me new improved Pledge will shine up my table better.

In the MC post, OB called him on it.  Said Ya, and when I go from MC to CC I see the same level of improvement in driving as you saw when you went from CP to MC......BAM, post removed, OB is banned.

OB didn't say MC is garbage.  He stated his opinion about a relative aspect of the boats' performance (that is generally accepted as correct).

OB is a Marine.  He was willing to lay his life on the line for right and wrong. It clearly bugs him to watch Horton shill.  Me too.  All people don't know the site is an advertisement.  They should, but they don't.  OB, as his training and personality dictate, is trying to protect those gullible people.

Horton and BOS are kind of like watching the kid smoke dope. Yes its true he has to ban people who go postal and misuse his site.  But that wasn't OB, and a lot of others like him.  What a waste of potential.


0
Bosban
Reply with quote  #33 
The ethics are certainly questionable.

I've been on many different web forums over the years, this is the only one I've ever been a part of that has shadow banning.

The reason is obvious - he wants you to keep clicking the pages and adding content. Incredibly concerning behavior.

If im an advertiser, I'd have some questions about the validity of the data Horton is selling them.

Not to mention these members are all very well known, stand up guys, not some internet trolls.
0
Ethical Not
Reply with quote  #34 
It is safe to say there are folks in the industry that are keenly aware of the BS that has been going on for some time. He posts and publishes non factual information frequently and NEVER provides retractions or corrections...even when urged to do so. Sad.
0
Fake News
Reply with quote  #35 
Copy and Paste and you, too, can become slalom skiing's greatest media outlet...[redface]
0
Lpskier
Reply with quote  #36 
So I take it most of you guys aren't at the BOS Cas Prize tournament this weekend. Me neither. I'm at the Queen's Cup. Great skiing on both coasts this weekend!
0
the shadow knows
Reply with quote  #37 
Umm Shadow Banning is not about keeping the clicks

"

Stealth banning (also called shadow banningghost banning or comment ghosting[1]) is the act of blocking a user from an online community such that the user does not realize that they have been banned.

By making a problem user's contributions invisible or less prominent to other members of the service, the hope is that in the absence of reactions to their comments, the problematic user will become bored or frustrated and leave the site.[1][2] If the user never becomes aware that they were banned, it will not occur to them to attempt to circumvent that ban

0
Dang
Reply with quote  #38 
I was wondering why my posts were being totally ignored.... now it makes sense.  What a joke, not even sure what I could have done wrong.
0
gator1
Reply with quote  #39 
Ya, shadow banning doesn't work if you are well known and have friends on the site.  I sent OB an email even as I watched his post disappear.
0
TRADE OFF
Reply with quote  #40 
Horton traded in these 






For these

Attached Images
Click image for larger version - Name: images-1.jpg, Views: 6, Size: 4.72 KB 

Attached Thumbnails
Name: money_hungryadult_retro_party_shades_retro_sunglasses-r...7e9_zzvmp_140.jpg, Views: 1461, Size: 4.01 KB 

0
cash prize
Reply with quote  #41 
There were 2 Fennells that won previous years' BOS cash prizes. One by 5 balls over his average or whatever they set as his par. Some would suspect sandbags on the shore.

Same guy who cried that a Canadian could not place in USA Waterski Nationals. Unfairness is everywhere or maybe just around some.
0
Meh
Reply with quote  #42 
Fennell doesn't change what's being said about JH. Take Fennell out of the pile and it still stinks.
0
Long gone
Reply with quote  #43 
BOS Forum started off as Carbon fin tweaker's which was a bunch of skiers looking out for each others by sharing info , knowledge & the passion for skiing , BOS has become a  site acting as if it has it's members backs while actually putting the advertisers 1st at the expense of the members ,kinda sad .
0
Percent
Reply with quote  #44 
What percent of all these comments are Brent and Kevin? Most?
0
WM
Reply with quote  #45 
I agree w/Ktm300 in thinking BOS is mostly good.  Waterski Magazine taught me years ago any review of a product by a reviewer, who receives advertising $ from the product's manufacturer, must be read with a bit of skepticism. 

Some of the people banned probably needed to be banned, i.e. Brent, Fennell.  Others probably not: Gator1, OB.   
0
Tech
Reply with quote  #46 
He should ban more often.
Like the morons that "review" skis when they can't run 14 , or they are free skiing talking about casting out after the centerline.
And adjusting fins for cold water.
And schmearing threw the wake
Ban em they don't know what they are talking about
0
Cash prize
Reply with quote  #47 
WM is spot on. I miss Gator he is a smart guy with passion for skiing. The banning of him and now OB diminishes BOS.

If Horton wants to ban someone, he should Consider a 2 strike rule unless is an egregious act. Once banned for 48 hrs then on probation for 6 months.

Some stating that Horton is a shill and others say he is obvious in his bias. I agree that he has some bias as ALL media does. His bias is transparent and mild if you are a smart consumer. If you are ignorant of that, then you have bigger problems than a boat promo driver stating that he prefers the way his boat steers over all others.

The garden guy on the radio recommends the fertilizer company who just happens to be an advertiser? The home repair radio host just happens to prefer a certain foundation company? MSNBC hates Trump? The horror!
0
Kevin Fennell
Reply with quote  #48 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Percent
What percent of all these comments are Brent and Kevin? Most?

I only ever posted under my own name. I invite you to do the same?

0
Kevin Fennell
Reply with quote  #49 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cash prize
There were 2 Fennells that won previous years' BOS cash prizes. One by 5 balls over his average or whatever they set as his par. Some would suspect sandbags on the shore. Same guy who cried that a Canadian could not place in USA Waterski Nationals. Unfairness is everywhere or maybe just around some.


I ski around people including well known pros every day, my skiing is what is is and I am better under pressure. Also it was 3 balls, but that is easy when your average is 5. I won once and then I didn't go the next year because Horton is a tool. 

As for the 2nd comment apparently I am the only one that thinks that someone who is a US permanent resident, lives here, pays taxes here, skis here, and has never even seen a course in another country is american enough to ski in the US nationals, but apparently I am wrong.
0
International Men
Reply with quote  #50 
Kevin they created division special for YOU so you could ski Nationals at your home site but you didn't ski did you?
0
Previous Topic | Next Topic
Print
Reply

Quick Navigation:

Easily create a Forum Website with Website Toolbox.