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Kevin Fennell
Reply with quote  #51 

Quote:
Originally Posted by International Men
Kevin they created division special for YOU so you could ski Nationals at your home site but you didn't ski did you?


I would have told them not to bother. Note almost nobody else skied in it either. 

Tell me would you travel to Arkansas and pay $150 to ski a meaningless 1 round E score, then pay $150 to ski another meaningless 1 round E that happened to be going on during nationals. Because that is what it is. 

This is beside the point of what we are talking about here though which is that Horton doesn't allow anyone to post negative things about his sponsors. 

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Anon@anon.com
Reply with quote  #52 
Long time listener, first time caller.  Ball of spray is a great site and has done some great things for skiing, but Horton does seem to be very touchy about certain subjects.  

Not sure how banning a poster like OB or many of the other posters helps his site.  I rarely look at his home page and tend to go the forums.  The advice I'm interested in comes from the members.  Less good input from people like them will mean less visits to ball of spray for me.  

PS - I'm not against moderation, but it does seem heavy handed.  I've made comments on the BOS site and have received what I perceived as a wrist slap for fairly minor criticisms.  YMMV.  
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Brent
Reply with quote  #53 
Yes other places like Waterski mag do the same thing by not giving a true review of products , as a result Waterski mag is not very relevant & is losing it's subscription base quickly [frown], still has great photo's !

BOS is following Waterski mag by being afraid to give real reviews for 2 reasons ,1) it does not want to harm waterski industry producers, 2) Afraid of losing sponsors . That is a choice of Horton's ,debate it anyway you want. The real issue is that Horton also doubles down on preventing posters in the forum from giving honest opinions on products that his sponsors produce ,which as long as it is not abusive & their view ,should be allowed . OB always gives  more than he takes in the waterski industry & is a voice of great value . 

BTW Horton has called my posting of this thread ,internet bullying & slanderous .
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Kevin Fennell
Reply with quote  #54 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent


BTW Horton has called my posting of this thread ,internet bullying & slanderous .


Horton knows as much about Slander and libel as he knows about fair and balanced reviews!
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ObVi
Reply with quote  #55 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent
Yes other places like Waterski mag do the same thing by not giving a true review of products , as a result Waterski mag is not very relevant & is losing it's subscription base quickly [frown], still has great photo's !

BOS is following Waterski mag by being afraid to give real reviews for 2 reasons ,1) it does not want to harm waterski industry producers, 2) Afraid of losing sponsors . That is a choice of Horton's ,debate it anyway you want. The real issue is that Horton also doubles down on preventing posters in the forum from giving honest opinions on products that his sponsors produce ,which as long as it is not abusive & their view ,should be allowed . OB always gives  more than he takes in the waterski industry & is a voice of great value . 

BTW Horton has called my posting of this thread ,internet bullying & slanderous .
ridiculous

1 word: EGO. Now that the guy is 💯% supported by advertisers and his wife, he will do what he feels will put more money in his pocket and it's gotten to his head, you know he is absolutely streaming mad at this thread... At the same time probably saying wgaf, there's almost nobody here.
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Banned
Reply with quote  #56 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Fennell


Why are we not allowed to bash companies when they make a product that is woefully inadequate?

Some examples: Radar green monster handle that went hard as a rock the first time it saw the sun. 
MOB binding system that would literally sink your ski to the bottom of the lake if it fell off the platform. 

Also wondering where is the parallel discussion?
the radar handles and ropes to a lesser extent are total garbage. Anyone who skis often and around other avid course skiers knows this. You don't see them at any tournament or tourney type sites, ever.
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Dock Dude
Reply with quote  #57 
My view of BOS is a bunch of skiers hanging out on the Dock talking about their passion. Horton is there to host and promote the comradaderie. Horton has some opinions and we find most of them informative and entertaining while recognizing he has favorites. He is a good dude with legit love for supporting waterskiing. We find most of his takes to be helpful but know the real answers are in the discussion he has instigated among forum members.

Occasionally there are some guys who show up on the Dock that are keen on annoying the rest of the ski community. They bring their iPad to the Dock and insist on showing everyone the complete history of waterski on YouTube. Others dwesh skiers .....blah blah blah too much of a waste of energy... blah blah Fennell. Blah. Blah, Horton says you few guys are driving away the folks hanging out on the Dock. Go away.

Do you actually think BOS is some volunteer charity run by a dude with nothing else to do? Is the primary purpose of BOS to provide an avenue for dweshbags to shame ski manufacturers on warranty issues before they attempt to call the warranty Dept?

Some of you real name posters should go 100% anon. The beauty of skifly is the raw truth of anonymity. Posting without the risk of numerous people forming unflattering opinions of you based solely based on your forum whines. You might actually be bearable in real life but we'll never know.








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Hmm
Reply with quote  #58 




1. Unreported Endorsements:  Two years ago, the FTC updated its guidelines on endorsements and testimonials to cover social media .  In a nutshell, if you’re giving any form of compensation to a blogger or tweeter, it is considered a compensated endorsement and must be disclosed. This includes free product or in-kind compensations and it covers all social media, not just bloggers. In 2006, Wal-Mart suffered a slew of negative publicity when its PR agency Edelman supported two bloggers road tripping across the U.S. writing positive stories about Wal-Mart through the organization Working Families for Wal-Mart.  The blogging was gaining traction until BusinessWeek broke the story that the trip expenses for the blogger were being paid indirectly by Wal-Mart.

2. Improper Anonymity:  It may be tempting to have your agencies comment anonymously on online forums to promote products, raise questions about competitors or even just correct bad information.  Doing so without revealing the company’s involvement is very risky.  Whole Foods CEO John Mackey found this out the hard way in 2007 when he was revealed to have pseudonymously trashed competitor Wild Oats online – before trying to buy them.  Even if your anonymous online contributions aren't illegal, they risk ruining the trust of your consumers.  Phony online reviews are one of the biggest plagues for honest retailers now and you don’t want to get lumped in with practices like that.2. Improper Anonymity:  It may be tempting to have your agencies comment anonymously on online forums to promote products, raise questions about competitors or even just correct bad information.  Doing so without revealing the company’s involvement is very risky.  Whole Foods CEO John Mackey found this out the hard way in 2007 when he was revealed to have pseudonymously trashed competitor Wild Oats online – before trying to buy them.  Even if your anonymous online contributions aren't illegal, they risk ruining the trust of your consumers.  Phony online reviews are one of the biggest plagues for honest retailers now and you don’t want to get lumped in with practices like that.

link to Full story -https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidvinjamuri/2011/11/03/ethics-and-the-5-deadly-sins-of-social-media/#614fe6c43e1f
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Hillary
Reply with quote  #59 
Lock him up!
Lock him up!
Lock him up!
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Nah
Reply with quote  #60 
 Readers can look at it with an informed perspective .

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Macomb Forbes
Reply with quote  #61 
Is it shilling or misleading when there is a drop downAdvertisers tab on the Forum And Home pages?

Is it too difficult to find that tab amongst all of the ad banners that sorround Horton's comments?
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craig gates
Reply with quote  #62 
Ya, but the disclosures don't say "all posters with negative opinions about these advertisers will be shadow banned and negative posts will be removed"  The lack of that disclosure leads readers to believe the posting audience is a legitimate cross section of the skiing public.  And that is fraudulent, and is my core issue with Horton's approach.

I agree anybody with a brain can see he is shilliing.  I don't think most know he is shadow banning to repress negative opinions on his advertisers products.  And I believe he is profiting dishonestly from that.
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KD lang
Reply with quote  #63 
Could ski better on the platinum...

What ski is Terry actually skiing on? No way it's the same KD as Horton..

I'm actually impressed" the guy" posted a real video of him riding that ski. Let see if anyone calls it out. Some already thought it was a pass deeper... just another example of the regular clueless posters.
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Shadows
Reply with quote  #64 
Quote:
Originally Posted by craig gates
Ya, but the disclosures don't say "all posters with negative opinions about these advertisers will be shadow banned and negative posts will be removed"  The lack of that disclosure leads readers to believe the posting audience is a legitimate cross section of the skiing public.  And that is fraudulent, and is my core issue with Horton's approach.

I agree anybody with a brain can see he is shilliing.  I don't think most know he is shadow banning to repress negative opinions on his advertisers products.  And I believe he is profiting dishonestly from that.
the fact he bans posters and allows them, without their knowledge, continue participating in the forum is ridiculously offside. At best its passive aggressive. It's 100% dewsh, as of we needed any extra evidence?
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Mrs. Kevin
Reply with quote  #65 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cash prize
There were 2 Fennells that won previous years' BOS cash prizes. One by 5 balls over his average or whatever they set as his par. Some would suspect sandbags on the shore....


I'm probably going to regret posting but had a few comments I couldn't keep from making. While it looked sketchy from outside, I can 100% guarantee he did NOT sandbag that tournament. Kevin had been struggling terribly for weeks before that tournament and had been skiing below average. (Happens every year: in the spring he runs -32 like he should never miss it then when the water warms up he struggles). At another tournament years prior he nearly ran -28 when he'd never been pass two ball. It happens.

Re: the nationals deal. I love our neighbors, I really do, but it would have been nice for them to discuss it with us first. We kinda got put in a shitty situation where they tried to do something nice without asking and we look like asses for turning it down. There's a very big difference between skiing IM AT nationals and skiing IN nationals. There's not too many people who would travel to Arkansas with their very pregnant wife (or brand new baby) just to be able to ski in an expensive one round tournament on their home site. As far as a "Canadian" wanting to ski IN nationals.... maybe everybody should learn a little bit more about the immigration process before they take such a harsh stand. Y'all were lucky enough to be born here but he chose it. I'm more than happy to discuss details and why foreigners aren't going to take your podium spots elsewhere if you're so inclined.

To the topic at hand. I stopped visiting/ posting BOS years ago for a variety of reasons. Two events in particular stick out in my mind. Once when I posted in a thread I received an "ohhh a girly!" response. Sure, I get it - the sport and website are pretty male heavy but why does gender matter enough to comment on? Then I happened to win a sweepstakes for some radar boots from Tommys slalom shop (coincidentally the store we used when I was growing up). However, when I asked Horton about alternatives because Radar didn't make the Profiles (or whatever model it was) small enough for me, he suggested the lyrics "because they're pink! ". Umm yeah, no. I'm not going to accept an inferior product because of the color and it's kinda sexist to assume that's a selling point for me. I understand that Radar doesn't really have another product for women (that's another rant) but why not just say that they're the only thing that would fit? So along with all the other stuff already mentioned, I just don't need my gender being "a thing".
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Lpskier
Reply with quote  #66 
I think it would be cool to be the "2017 Goode US Nationals International Men's National Champion."
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skier
Reply with quote  #67 
People are way too sensitive; everything offends. Relax, smoke some smoke...it's legal just about everywhere...
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gator1
Reply with quote  #68 
Mrs. Kevin,

I agree with your reasons for leaving BOS.  There is definitely a 80's frat boy misogynistic slant to the site.  Which is ironic considering that all 4 of the "55k ranked" skiers posting to the site regularly have their hats handed to them by a 5'4" girl.  Who jumps 170'.

Pretty hard to be studly in those circumstances.

And the only pros posting to the site are trying to build their instruction business.
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scot ellis
Reply with quote  #69 
slight hick up
apparently you need to pay your bills on time or things get shut off.


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scot ellis
Reply with quote  #70 
That last post wasn't to increase my instruction business
It was to say I ***ked up with paying my bills

Enjoy pissing each other off.     

one more thing    You should stand up when your national anthem is played!!
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Mrs. Kevin
Reply with quote  #71 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lpskier
I think it would be cool to be the "2017 Goode US Nationals International Men's National Champion."


Lol well, shit! We didn't know an official title came with it! [wink]
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Anon@anon.com
Reply with quote  #72 
@Scot Elis - Thanks for the site and the comment on the national anthem!
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gator1
Reply with quote  #73 
"......only pros posting to the site......."  meant posting to BOS, not skifly.
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Disappointed
Reply with quote  #74 
I am not sure why a company would want to support the site, especially after this ghost banning has come to light.

Criticizes AWSA, Nationals, etc, yet doesn't attend Nationals.  Wants suggestions to improve the sport, then ghost blocks opposing views.

I can't continue to support companies that support any of that. 
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Kevin Fennell
Reply with quote  #75 
Here is the current list of advertisers, some are hard to avoid, some easier:

Babe's
Connelly
DBSkis
Denali
Goode
HO Syndicate
Mapple
MasterCraft
Masterline
O'Brien
Performance Ski and Surf
PTM Edge
Stokes
Reflex
Radar
Wakeye

 

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Boat $$
Reply with quote  #76 
Look's like another reason to go Nautique or Malibu
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recovering addict
Reply with quote  #77 
I was a habitual BOS viewer, countless times a day for no real reason.  I took the link to the forum out of my favorites quick link and found that life was just fine without it and no withdraw symptoms .  


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Barney
Reply with quote  #78 
BOS won't persuade me to buy from somebody but I'm certainly not going to let their antics dissuade me from a company or its products.  Kind of extreme in my opinion. And some of those companies do more good for the sport than the bad coming from BOS.
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WM
Reply with quote  #79 
@Barney: Agreed, boycotting products/companies because they advertising w/BOS is very extreme but certainly w/i a consumer's right.  If enough feel as extreme it may make a difference in how Horton runs his business.

Personally, I think BOS does more good than bad.  If nothing else the homepage generally has some cool videos.  Yes, they usually promote a product in some way (Flowpoint included) but who cares?  The more I know about what is going on in the ski world the better and right now BOS is providing more current information than anyone. 

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Colin
Reply with quote  #80 
Quote:
Originally Posted by scot ellis
That last post wasn't to increase my instruction business
It was to say I ***ked up with paying my bills

Enjoy pissing each other off.     

one more thing    You should stand up when your national anthem is played!!
why?
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Mom
Reply with quote  #81 
Because I said so!
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Lpskier
Reply with quote  #82 
@Colin Out of respect for the millions, yes millions, of men and women, black, white and Latino, gay and straight, and maybe transgender, that have fought and died to protect their right to be a highly paid yet spoiled rotten pro athlete.
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Flo Point
Reply with quote  #83 
Just wait for the next Flow Point....but only if you ride a HO and own a ProStar. So slanted its a bore to watch now. And he could care a less about America or the Flag as a west coast snowflake.
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skier
Reply with quote  #84 
Stand up because it shows respect for your country. Kneel for what? because you're mad at your country and it doesn't deserve it? Because Police are sometimes racist? What does that have to do with our flag? 
And when is it ok for you to stand again? Will that be later this year that all the racist cops or racist judges, or racist lawyers, or racist bakers will just announce that all racism is now over? 
Yep, that's it!  All racism will officially end October 14th! Yeaaaaah! Remember , all racism ends on that day, and everyone can stand up on October 15th. 
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Prayer
Reply with quote  #85 
Honestly taking a knee shows submission to the Anthem ,what is the big deal & why would you care . People get shot coming out of their Church & no one cares but some Black dude takes a knee during the anthem & all hell breaks lose ,get a grip !!!
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Colin
Reply with quote  #86 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lpskier
@Colin Out of respect for the millions, yes millions, of men and women, black, white and Latino, gay and straight, and maybe transgender, that have fought and died to protect their right to be a highly paid yet spoiled rotten pro athlete.
what do as you suggest: highly paid spoiled Rotten athletes with CTE have to do with the military and the lives that have been lost so rich men can get richer? Nothing in fact.

Why would you expect a black man to stand, or anyone for that matter for a flag and the nation it represents, when that nation quite obviously respects you less than others? The reason the NFL is something like 80% black is because those boys have a better chance of making it in sport than in school. "Spoiled Rotten". Get a clue.

NFL Players never stood for the anthem until just recently, in fact they would almost always be in the locker room... Less than 10 years ago, not a grand tradition as some suggest and hardly disrespectful to take a knee.

Many military men have agreed that they didn't fight for an anthem to be played at a sporting event, they faught for ones right to peacefully protest and for the principles of the constitution, and many vocally support these athletes, including Kaepernick and their choice to take a knee.

You've obviously been fed a lifetime of nationalistic propoganda and can't see the clouds from the trees. No shame in that, but open your mind and maybe a history book.

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Drumpf
Reply with quote  #87 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prayer
Honestly taking a knee shows submission to the Anthem ,what is the big deal & why would you care . People get shot coming out of their Church & no one cares but some Black dude takes a knee during the anthem & all hell breaks lose ,get a grip !!!
how many waterskiers ever even had a black man to dinner? Talk about spoiled Rotten bohunks. The waterkiers Facebook posts about how great I am have gone eerily silent. Wonder why? Best president ever!!! (Unless you're Mexican, then I agree, not so great for you)
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Whatever
Reply with quote  #88 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lpskier
@Colin Out of respect for the millions, yes millions, of men and women, black, white and Latino, gay and straight, and maybe transgender, that have fought and died to protect their right to be a highly paid yet spoiled rotten pro athlete.


Judge ‘em, knock yourself out. But it’s still their right. Our idiot president stoked the fire. Stupid petulant child can’t f’ing help himself. He doesn’t get crap done, just stirs sh&t up.
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well
Reply with quote  #89 
This diverted quickly.  Take it somewhere else, please.
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@colin
Reply with quote  #90 
Yeah, Colin , dealin with the facts...."blacks have a better chance to play pro sports than in school". One of the dumbest statements ever made...and a bit racist. 

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Colin
Reply with quote  #91 
Quote:
Originally Posted by @colin
Yeah, Colin , dealin with the facts...."blacks have a better chance to play pro sports than in school". One of the dumbest statements ever made...and a bit racist. 

that is the perception of so many black youth. It's not racist, it's a fact.

You'd be at best ignorant if you suggested black Americans have an equal opportunity in school or that those schools are funded at the same level as predominantly white schools. It is a fact that black youth have less of a chance of graduating high school and attending post secondary than white students. In many cases athletics evens the playing field, essepcially sports which do not require a lot of equipment funding such as basketball or football.

This is a major reason why pro sports in America is dominated by black althetes-oppression and poverty, but you best stand for the flag...

God bless America
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White privilege
Reply with quote  #92 
1) how does a site about Water skiing have the perspective to even comment on this subject ? Who knows a black tournament or course water skier ? 

2) look at the backgrounds of NFL/NBA/MLB players & I am pretty sure you will find most of them grew up very poor & athletic's were there focus on getting out of poverty .Most of these Pro athlete's did not have a home life that lent it's self to academic's [frown]

3) With Korea, Cities devastated by hurricanes & much more ,how is this the main point of focus ? Flags & anthems are propaganda tools , do what is right instead of taking peoples rights away !
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oh colin
Reply with quote  #93 
oh colin, oh colin, thank you for enlightening us you superior gen x or y, great man. Go screw yourself. 
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Lpskier
Reply with quote  #94 
@well Were we at BOS, an "off topic" button would have been hit, multiple times, probably on my comment above that took the bait. Horton would have stepped in before now to keep the discussion on track. fn 1; fn2.

So the moral of the story here might be that Horton in fact does do a good job moderating a discussion, even if you don't agree with his equipment reviews, and even if he, allegedly "shills" for the very people that make the site financially viable.

fn1: The irony of course is that the discussion is about "what a turd Horton/BOS is," so Horton would be sheparding us back to slamming him. In this instance, he might permit the segues.

fn2: I think this is the first post on SkiFly with footnotes.
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BOSblacksheep
Reply with quote  #95 
baahhhhhhh

censorship - a great attribute of a totalitarian regime.  
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Baaaad
Reply with quote  #96 
That is the connection between BOS & the kneeling during the Anthem , the ability to make a point or state an opinion without being  bullied , silenced ,banned, fired...  , have the conversation ,express your views without resorting to insults because your not bright enough to have an intelligent dialogue or are afraid of losing sponsors .
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History Major
Reply with quote  #97 
@baaad Obviously, you would support Ann Coulter's right to address a student group at, say, UC Berkeley.
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SDB
Reply with quote  #98 
Quote:
Originally Posted by KD lang
Could ski better on the platinum... What ski is Terry actually skiing on? No way it's the same KD as Horton.. I'm actually impressed" the guy" posted a real video of him riding that ski. Let see if anyone calls it out. Some already thought it was a pass deeper... just another example of the regular clueless posters.



KD lang .... can you elaborate?   Not sure what you're saying
0
KD
Reply with quote  #99 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDB



KD lang .... can you elaborate?   Not sure what you're saying
the KD ski Horton rode in the video he posted looked like crap. He said he he felt like crap but didn't blame the ski. The regular run of posters went gaga over it mostly because they're color blind and thought it was a pass deeper.

Maybe Terry is skiing on an out of the box platinum, but that guy could run 41 on just about Anything.
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Sorry Scot
Reply with quote  #100 
All Americans should stand up when the national anthem is played - right after the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES stops acting like the sexist racist bigot that he is.
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